February 6, 2007

There is a war between the left and right
A war between the black and white
A war between the odd
And the even.

“There is a war”
Leonard Cohen

Sometimes I don’t speak too bright
but yet I know what I’m talking about
Why can’t we be friends?

“Why can’t we be friends?”

I first became aware of blogwar when I received two comments at my blogger site. One was from Iain Hall (whom I’d never heard of) paying me complements on my earlier piece re. cultural studies, the other was from ‘bourbon-boy’ who informed me that Iain’s plug was the ‘kiss of death’.

Now up ‘til that point I’d pretty much ignored the blogsphere. I started this as a way of getting over an entrenched and prolonged block. It never really occurred to me that there were a million blogs out there all expressing political views and that the heat of normal political debate manifested in cyberspace also.

Anyway so I looked up Iain’s blog and was pleasantly surprised to see that he was a conservative. This is because tho’ I’m not I think it important to be able to communicate across the battlelines of the political spectrum. Ideology often acts as an inhibitor to the exchange of ideas. Ideas, ideologically organized, are soldiers in an army. One army fights the other. It doesn’t matter that some ideas are worthy and some not so much so. It matters not likewise that if this army’s idea were combined somehow with the idea from that army good might result. What matters is defeating the enemy?

I think this a problem.

The necessary precursor to accomplishing inter-ideological ceasefire naturally is to get them to listen. If a conservative liked my stuff then I was at least getting them to listen.

I then went to bourbon boy’s site, known as HALLWATCH. This site is dedicated to shitting on Iain Hall!!! I thought this a bit strange as Hall is not a major media figure exactly, he’s a bloke who blogs. Still HALLWATCH is dedicated to tearing old Iain a new arsehole. It’s not so much a debunking of his views (like Boltwatch) but simply an all out effort to humiliate the guy.

An example of the kind of thing you get there is:

This is a good example of just what an arrogant fuckwad Iain is, when I read stuff like this then I feel no guilt about running Hallwatch and focusing on this big mouthed rural jerk off from Queensland (where men are men and women are usually men too.)

According to Bourbon-boy: “HALLWATCH represent a growing trend of decent bloggers who are unhappy with Iain and his actions on the Net.” Bourbon-boy has a small crew who all express the view that the man deserves to be skewered with a scud missile. It’s funny in a playground fashion. But there’s the inevitable hypocrisy. HALLWATCH a site objecting to the bad ethics of one Netizen responds with comparable tactics. For example: Bourbon-boy accuses Iain of being, amongst other things, a stalker however he continually makes reference to Iain’s personal life!

There’s a whole history involving Iain’s crew and Bourbon-boy’s crew going way back to I don’t know. I won’t go into it because I don’t want to get into it. If you guys are reading this I am not taking sides. For others if you want to check it out, check it out.

But I must ask: if Hall is so evil why doesn’t he just write him off, block his commentary ignore him? What is the point?

This sort of stuff’s all over the place. Consider an otherwise sober site (that shall be nameless here). Normally the debate’s quite civilized. But there’s been a running rant/counter-rant between two gentlemen (also to go un-named) who, I guess, purport to be scientists arguing about climate change. The following is a selection of their oratorical eloquence:

Give us one in your own words liar.

“Bird-brain, Have you actually read Lomborg’s book?”

You dirty-homo?

What award are you going for. Jack-ass of the year 2007?

Fuck you, you filthy faggot.

You are blowing hot air out your arse,

Bird-brain. Of course I’ve read Lomborg’s book stoopid, whereas you obviously haven’t. You should learn to shut your fat gob when you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Since you have an intellectual capacity inferior to slime mould it would be pointless providing you with evidence. Now why don’t you go to the gym and shed some more of the disgusting walrus blubber that insulates your repulsive person
Get to it fatso- run, run run! .

Now I suspect that these guys really enjoy shitting on each other. I reckon they look forward to it all day (do Bourbon-Boy, Iain Hall and co?). But as much fun as this is – I have learned nothing from it.

In a recent interview for Esquire biochemist James Watson stated that he’d “turned against the left-wing because they don’t like genetics, because genetics implies that sometimes we’ll fail in life because we have bad genes. They want all failure in life to be due to an evil system.” (Esquire “What I’ve Learned” Jan 2007 p. 90). Indeed this underlies in terms of Watson’s own field the problem many have with the left these days; the dogmatic adherence to allocate a social explanation for everything.

Elsewhere Watson says that “new ideas require new facts.”

But new ideas require more than new facts, they require the capacity to face them. New facts can be unpleasant. Genetics as Watson (a formerly left-leaning Democrat of the libertarian mould) poses facts unpleasant for those of us with egalitarian ideals. But facts are facts. For those of us who enjoy our cars arguments for the necessity of drastically reducing human carbon emissions might also be unpleasant.

Much of that argument at present between scientific camps as between journalists, politicians and others is a wrangling between world-views that select facts to suit themselves. This is potentially disasterous either way. To drastically reduce emissions means reducing growth implying unemployment and the perpetuation of pre-modern lifestyles for much of the world; to do nothing when action is required to avoid catastrophe is likewise potentially lethal.

We need facts and solidarity not devisive point-scoring. The same thing I’d suggest goes for terrorism. The left taking the knee-jerk oppositional stance to the chauvanistic posturings of the US administration take the view that one should side (or at least sympathize) with al-Qaeda. Absurd!! This is an organization which would like to sweep aside most of the social progress that Western leftists have fought for over the last two hundred hears or so.

That’s not to let the right off the hook so easily. There’s a whole catalogue of discourse that vilifies Muslims as barbarian hordes all too eager for war. Ironically enough much of this vitriol is expressed in barbarian war-mongering terms. Either/or. Either kill ‘em or go to bed with ‘em. It never occurs to either side that al-Qaeda might actually piss off a lot of Arabs. For a ‘left-wing’ Palestinian who hates terrorists check this out.

This “Jew-hating terrorist” devotes time and money to the following anti-Semitic endeavours:

I just got off the phone with a good friend of mine that was on my Thesis Committee (A 75 Year Urban City Plan for Jerusalem). He is the Rabbi of the third oldest congregation in America. He liked the idea a lot and is not only willing to help but thinking of coming himself. If anyone else would like to come or help shoot me an email.

Following in the footsteps of a very courageous idea, we are going to begin funding the temporary swap of Arab and Israeli bloggers… Let me explain. Rabbi Belzer is the founder and vp of an organization in Ireland that brings Palestinians and Israelis together to develop understanding… a beautiful objective.

The project’s called “meet your cousin”. What a barbarian!! And being against the death penalty (unusual for a bloodthirsty Palestinian I guess) here’s his reaction to the death of a leading al-Qaeda figure: Burn in Hell: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

Oh!!! What?

You “learned” ladies and gentlemen from either end of the political spectrum in this most “civilized” and Christian Commonwealth of Australia this attitude doesn’t exactly compute. Does it? Here’s a Palestinian (and a critic of Zionism) who doesn’t like terrorists and is friends with Rabbis!

See? The world is not that simple. What makes it simple is people who reach for one piece of information with which to explain a complex issue and then roll it up and spend the rest of their lives beating others ‘round the head with it. To those of you inclined to do this I’d just like to say, quietly, over a quiet afternoon cup (doesn’t have to be latte or even coffee): I’M SICK OF YOUR FUCKING SELF-RIGHTEOUS RANTS!!

Just quietly.

The scientist vs. scientist diatribe above concerned the famous “skeptical environmentalist” Bjørn Lomborg who, as I recall was spat upon at Oxford for debunking some environmentalist claims. Lomborg had originally been trying to debunk a conservative assertion that most of the problems cited by ecologists in the 1970s had been favorably dealt with. The environmental lobby had vigorously refuted this. Lomborg suspecting they were right set out to attack the conservative position. He found that it was the environmentalists who were wrong about a lot of things. How much I can’t say because Lomborg’s research has also been questioned. He did as I remember state that global warming was still a major problem.

The veracity of Lomborg’s research is immaterial. What is relevant here is the reaction of environmental activists. They attacked him for disproving their propaganda. My perspective at the time was why? He seems to have shown that we can deal with whatever environmental damage we have caused. Surely this is a good thing.

For many environmentalists (and I wasn’t at the time much concerned with those sorts of things) Lomborg’s book was good news. A lot of the opposition came from people so dedicated to the fight, to the hatred of the other side that they considered him a traitor. This is not to infer that environmentalists are a pack of liars. They aren’t. But there are liars and fools on both sides of the fence: left and right.
Pertinent to twentieth century issues this might pass. But the twenty-first century is potentially both a much more dangerous place and a much better place. Terrorism. Environment. Peace and sustainability. Stakes are high. If we win, we really win and if we lose…

In the process of winning a never-ending rhetorical battle we lose the capacity to absorb the new facts that they might present. I believe the growing rift between the left and right and the corresponding loss in capacity for self-criticism, reflection and old fashioned courteous listening is dangerous, literally. It’s not like we can ever be a big happy circle dancing around to the same tune. Our taste in music is different. But we can endeavour to be a tad more respectful. Surprisingly it doesn’t cost much.

What is required now is a putting aside of the bulky twentieth century dogmas and prejudices. Begin again with basics. What was it you really believed in again. What’s going on? Truly. And, that old and timeless classic…

What is to be done?



  1. Iain said

    I think your picture of the blog war situation is quite fair. I am not a total innocent in the conflict, however I long ago decided that there were strict limits beyond, which one should not go. Like a real war one has to act with some sense of Honour. Speaking as an involved party it seems to me that these things take on terrible life of their own and it becomes like so many vendetta’s a matter off not loosing face as much as it is about the original bone of contention,
    The real irony of the litany of puerile attacks from Bourbon boy upon myself is the fact that he was not even a party to the scraps that started the whole thing in the first place! I won’t bore you with the details (you can check out my old blogs if you care to) but I have actually come to a sort of uneasy peace with the other principles in the conflict. But it is the peripheral characters that seem to have nothing else in their lives won’t let things be. I mostly just ignore the drivel or blow raspberries in their general direction with my FWC blog.

    One of my intentions when I moved to WordPress was to move on and I made the decision not to take all of my previous posts into my new archive (but they remain at my old blogs). I am making a very big effort to be both fair and just a little aloof from the tribalism that is blight on blogging. Like you I value civility and I also value getting people of quite different ideological viewpoints to “chew the fat”, rather than each other’s throats. But by the same token I won’t put up with any bullshit your blog is your castle and not a public space that others make the rules for .
    Now I could rant on for ever but I have to get my little boy off to bed so I’ll leave it there for now. 😎

  2. Good post Adrien. And yes, ff and Birdy often have excellent entertainment value, but not much else I’m afraid 😉

  3. Thanks guys

    Iain I wonder how Bourbon-boy will respond to this when he reads it? You might as you say not be innocent but at least your purpose in the cyber-life doesn’t revolve around villification.

    SL – I reckon ol’ Birdy’s missed his calling. If I were Andrew Bolt or Alan Jones I’d be worried they’ve got nothing on him.

  4. Iain said

    BB is your typical computer geek (if you will pardon my use of a crude stereotype) who has no understanding of the world at all, give him a PC and I bet he can do wonders but ask him about ethics and Honour and he will think that that is the name of a band.
    But I digress He will probably claim that you have been taken in by my affable Internet manner. And that you should watch out, as I will try to get you sacked :).
    They are such a mob of wimps really. I did not even say that I would do anything about revealing Mikey’s blogging (which contravenes his employment contract) I merely said that it was possible. The funny thing is that was almost exactly how the whole thing started. I opined that a particular blogger was not as anonymous as he thought and when he banned me for pointing out that theoretical fact. I posted a request for info and within days I knew who he was and I said so in my blog. It has been on for young and old ever since,. Although apart from a bit of sniping from Gread and Everett Bourbon Boy is the one who is keeping the conflict going. The original spat was with Jeremy Sear, he now blogs in his own name so the issue of his ‘anonymity is now a Non Issue For me.
    I say that I am not a “total Innocent” because I have played hardball to defend my corner and I have a take no prisoners approach when I am attacked. But I never went further than publishing the work email of the aforementioned Sear. And at the height of his threats of litigation I was one step away from making a complaint to the Victorian bar(it is a breach of professional ethics to use one’s position as a barrister to intimidate a member of the public) but I decided that as aggrieved as I felt that this would be a disproportionate response. Look here for all of the details
    If you post a link to this piece at his blog He will come like a shot and tell you what he thinks. Just don’t expect any reason or good sense. But I think you know that anyway.
    I will write a short plug for it at mine after I get back from picking up my daughter from the bus stop 😀


  6. Iain said

    He has noticed and written a hasty post declaring that you are my sock pupet!!! as predicted. 😎

  7. Oh, Adrien. If only you’d witnessed the whole creepy saga. Threatening Hall? Hall’s entire early blogging career was trying to publish anonymous bloggers’ names and private details and threatening to make complaints to their employers (or, in my case, the Bar). He didn’t want to debate his ideological opponents; he wanted to hurt them.

    But I won’t comment further. I’ve got better things to do than provoke Hall’s obsessive stalking again. I’d be wary of him, though, if I were you.

  8. Bridgit Gread said

    I second what Jeremy has to say. Hall, in the comments here as well as elsewhere, downplays his role in this saga, as if he were an errant but fundamentally decent schoolboy who just acted a little silly once or twice. It was far, far more than that. He stalked, snooped, pestered, harrangued and generally went out of his way to interfere in the real life of a number of bloggers. That’s why he’s loathed, Adrien, not for any other reason but what he did to several people over a considerable period of time. Now he’s copping it back from Bourbon Boy and he’s crying foul; the irony is tremendous.

    Buy the sweetness and light act if you like, it’s your call. But as Jeremy says, watch your back.

  9. Moving on sounds like a really good idea, peoples. The proof of the pudding will be in the eating, as they say.

  10. AV said

    The left taking the knee-jerk oppositional stance to the chauvanistic posturings of the US administration take the view that one should side (or at least sympathize) with al-Qaeda.

    That’s just stupid, Adrien. And you talk about “Either/Or.” Please provide evidence that The Left–that is, in general, not just some isolated fruitcake–sides or sympathises with al-Qaeda.

    Silly strawmen like this only exacerbate the blogwars and ill-sentiment you’re talking about.

    Being critical of the Bush administration does not automatically make one a terrorist sympathiser. Sheesh!

  11. AV Please read my response to reader Tic-Tog who voiced similar objections to that statement on the sister site. For the evidence or at least polemical back-up go the links below:

    Thanks for comment and your point is well made. I have a tendency to be glib. You are indeed correct in that the vast bulk of what can be called the left cannot be said to have sympathised will al-Qaeda. As I recall even Green Left weekly condemned 9-11 although they did go into lengthy detail as to why it was all ultmately America’s fault. I really can’t justify the statement and therefore I’ll withdraw with qualification.

    I don’t think we understand the Middle East. I lived there for quite a while I don’t understand it. I don’t think they understand it. Tho’ the left’s criticisms of American foreign policy are warranted and, considering the silence of our mainstream media on the subject, necessary, I think that they too are one sided. we often criticize America for its ills and forget that it’s also a benefactor. The right do the reverse.

    The fact is the Middle East mess has occured for a lot of reasons. America is a rather late comer to the situation. They cannot be held entirely responsible.

    It’s interesting to read some of the blogs from the Middle East. For starters I’d recommend and These guys (from the right and left respectively) have some interesting comments.

    All that said there are many on the left who persist in certain past errors. If no-one’s supporting al-Qaeda there are supporters the Islamic Republic of Iran which has links (tenuous) to al-Qaeda and is not a very nice place to live.

    What I’m basically saying is that the left can be just as inclined to play the absolutist bad guys/good guys game as the right with equally absurd results. There are no good guys and bad guys in the world of realpolitik, there are simply powers and alliances.

    Despite the glib bluntness of the sentence you quoted I think the general point is still valid. The left’s position re. multi-culturalism lead them into some pretty stupid extreme relativist positions.

    For further illustration please read the following articles:

  12. Anthony_ said

    Hey mate, just sit back and laugh at them all. It really is funny, yeah Iain started it but in retaliating they are no better than him.

    The campaign to out Lefty (Jeremy) was pretty vicious, all you had to do is google his name to see it. You had Tim Blair, Andrew Landeryou & TSSH all having a crack, compared to them Iain’s little blog was small fry it was just the easiest target to get revenge on the way back.

  13. Actually I forgot the size of the ‘Out Lefty’ campaign – it was pretty huge at the time. Mind you everyone pulled their heads in when he got his blogs hacked on Christmas Eve, because it was a really low, shitty thing to do.

  14. Iain said

    Moving on sounds like a really good idea, peoples.
    You had Tim Blair, Andrew Landeryou & TSSH all having a crack, compared to them Iain’s little blog was small fry it was just the easiest target to get revenge on the way back.
    I am not going to make any attempt to justify my actions in the blog war but I will say that I endorse these comments from this tread.
    Although Jeremy and Bridgit are very keen to blacken my character and suggest that I am a man driven by malice this is far from the truth. I take the attitude that the whole continuing saga is rather like an Internet soap opera. The sorts of things that have been done to try to hurt me would be worthy of Monty Python or the Goons.
    I am just one bloke who has been the target of a whole tribe of ranting lefties and they just can’t stand it that I have withstood their continued attempts to chasten and humiliate me. Now I just want to move on, and I have been saying that for a while now, but as many of those of the leftist religion are far better at hating than forgiving I expect that the files will not stop buzzing any time soon.

  15. Bridgit Gread said

    Perhaps the “files” are still buzzing because every time you claim to have ‘moved on’, it’s not too long before you launch another barrage in their direction. Your gloating, chuckling post in support of Landeryou’s smear campaign was case in point. This is not about a ‘leftist conspiracy’ or ‘leftist hatred’; that’s just an easy way for you to dodge any personal responsibility for your own actions. This is about you acting like a prick, demanding a ‘fresh start’ every month so you can play the serious blogger, before you eventually act like a prick again. If you want a fresh start then why don’t you do what I did and delete FWC or Being Nice or whatever the hell it’s called these days?

  16. Iain said

    A moments indulgence please Adrien 😎
    The last time I tried to do as you suggest;If you want a fresh start then why don’t you do what I did and delete FWC or Being Nice or whatever the hell it’s called these days?
    I had at least three of you lot claiming that I was doing so to “hide the evidence”. Now as I see it this is a dammed if I do and a dammed if I don’t. And as long as long there are all of those hate sites dedicated to attacking me then I need to have my side of the story available to anyone who cares to read it. If they were to agree to archive their posts I would be more than happy to do likewise.
    So here is your chance to play peacemaker, a chance for you to show that you have a taste for solving problems rather than just seeking vengeance. For there can be no end to a conflict unless all parties agree to lay down their arms. I have tried the unilateral approach on at least half a dozen occasions and each time some new attack has sprung up; Your self ,Janine, ”not iain hall”, Computer socks, Nastyperson, Ian Haul, Bourbon boy, Everett; Have I forgotten any one else?
    Get those still at it to agree to a real ceasefire and truce and I will be happy to do likewise. As I have said I am weary of this game but I am also not willing to surrender to the fellow traveller vigilantes.

  17. Bridgit Gread said

    My blog was not an ‘attack’ against you; it was a record of how you tried to attack me and were thwarted in the process. Nevertheless I deleted it some time ago.

    I don’t deny that you have been the victim of some scurrilous and defamatory claims. But you have also spewed forth a few yourself, via your fairly ordinary FWC blog. I reckon if you deleted that and ignored him for a week or two, BB would quickly fade into oblivion. As you’ve said he thrives on provoking a response.

  18. […] outbursts of snarking may be amusing, but they don’t seem so hot to some. Long-time lurker and new blogger Adrien is interesting on how blogwars look from the […]

  19. Iain said

    I don’t deny that you have been the victim of some scurrilous and defamatory claims. But you have also spewed forth a few yourself, via your fairly ordinary FWC blog.
    I have never claimed to be blameless but in a long fight who is to say which came first, the chicken or the egg? I did not intend the FWC blog for general consumption It was always there as a venue to record the facts from my point of view and of late it has become a venue for me to take the piss from the likes of troll boy and his mates keeps the snarky stuff out of my more serious blog. Now I have collated all of the stuff that relates to the “Blogwar” into the renewed Being Nice as part of a plan to consolidate my blogs on the WordPress platform.

    I reckon if you deleted that and ignored him for a week or two, BB would quickly fade into oblivion. As you’ve said he thrives on provoking a response.
    Bridgit I tried that when I went to WordPress and the result has been 76 abusive comments posted by Bourbon boy. To try to goad me into responding, fortunately I think I have worked out how to consign any future comments that he tries to post straight to the Spam bin.and sadly for you Bridgit I have decided that you will share the same fate. Your publishing the email I sent you in contravention of my explicit direction that it was not for publication was the last straw so you are now banned as well.
    Clearly you are not up to my peacemaker challenge and have decided that continued vengeance is more your style but I am not surprised.

  20. Alex said

    I’ve witnessed some spiteful acts within the blogosphere, including attempts to destroy people’s lives and reputations.

    It really seems to bring out the worst in people.

  21. slim said

    Great article Adrien. I’ve been mulling over similar thoughts since I started dabbling in the world of blogs about four months ago.

    The left/right, I’m right/You’re wrong mentality is tiresome, childish, tribal, and above all else an impediment to productive dialog and developing refined understandings of our own points of view and those of others. ‘Truth’ usually lies somewhere in between, or is unaffected by our considerations.

    I’ve participated in minor stoushes here and there and being generally a mild-mannered person, I am often appalled at the abuse, bigotry, mean-spiritedness and violent behaviour of some blogizens, most of whom I would presume are well-educated, and probably perfectly civil folk in the real world.

    Solid, considered argument, however deluded opponents might consider it, is more often treated with derision, abuse and obfuscation rather than intelligent debate. I keep making the mistake of assuming that a particular thread is meant for discussion, when it is often turns out to be just a clubbish gathering to reinforce the members’ self-righteous prejudices.

    It is easy to be drawn in by the thrust and parry of argument. I try to be as civil, thoughtful and considered as possible, but it is often to no avail.

    Again, well done for a thoughtful original analysis of blogwars.

  22. Bridgit Gread said

    I expect from your carrying-on that you want this blog war to continue, Iain, so in that case you and Bourbon Boy are welcome to each other. And for what it’s worth, he seems to have the upper hand over you anyway. Enjoy the stoush.

  23. Iain said

    How many ways do I have say that I want peace but not at any price?
    Despite our mutual disdain for each other I have no beef with you these days and even if I were to discover your “secret identity”. It won’t be headlined in my blogs at any time in the future. I have moved on from that.

    As I said peace requires both sides to lay down their arms funny but I see no indication that those on your side of the divide are keen to do that any time soon; Troll boy continues with his crap, you used to post harassing comments and Everett, is again threatening complaints to the police. While writing derisory posts about me at his blog and you expect me to just put up my hands and surrender? No wonder your grasp of politics is not so hot…. 😈

  24. Anthony_ said

    Iain just drop it man, Bridgit is right delete the FWC or Iambeingnice blog and ignore your detractors.

    Hey its hard when someone is in your face but if you stick it out it will cease. Mr Lefty is a good example, as soon as he took his own name most of his so called blog war enemies had nothing.

  25. Long live the brave pyjama-clad men and women of the 101st Fighting Keyboards!

    No troll shall go unvanquished, no sock puppet is safe, no witty barb shall go unretaliated, no typo unmocked.

    We concede no points, we brook no dissent. Mere facts shall not diminish our capacity to rationalise our position in the face of clear counter-evidence.

    Our skins may be thin, our jaws may be glass, yet with Hush Puppies held high, off to war we slouch.

    Every bitter drop of re-heated coffee is nectar, every bowl of two-minute noodles a banquet.

    We are sustained on nothing but moral indignation and the burning certainty that our interlocutor is a pustulous babboon with the mental capacity of a bowl of mashed ants and the sexual diseases of a flotilla of Royal Navy seamen.

    Onward to victory!

    Let the living rooms and studies of the world quake in fear of our resounding cry!


  26. Well said, Adrien. Like you, I was initially oblivious to all of this. I have written a similar post. I also wrote a post called “Bull Seals on a Rock” about the recent Landeryou-Sear stoush. I really don’t like those kind of personal attacks.

    As I’ve often said, I don’t care whether anyone is left or right, as long as they are willing to engage in sensible and respectful debate. To my mind, there’s no point in only reading posts with which you agree and only talking to people with whom you agree.

  27. Andy said

    This is just unreal. Do you really expect people who stand for what is good to cooperate with evil. Yor out of yor fuckin’ mind

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